tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post496680438249300639..comments2009-03-03T18:30:54.355-05:00Dan Woodringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11653512532356811993noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-65055963558138611572009-03-03T18:30:00.000-05:002009-03-03T18:30:00.000-05:00

you said: As I continued my research, I began to realize that what I had thought Catholic Church taught on Justification, was not what they really taught. I came to understand that the Scholastic Occamist view of justification, which was semi-pelagian, the view criticized most extensively in the Confessions was not what the Catholic Church teaches, now or then. <BR/><BR/>Me: You got it. I

Marcelitohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14125340414261892194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-58269796930463663552008-07-07T22:41:00.000-04:002008-07-07T22:41:00.000-04:00

Pastor Woodring:<BR/><BR/>As a Missouri Synod pastor who loves the work of Higher Things I have followed your blog. Though I am late to the conversation, please permit me a few comments. <BR/><BR/>You emphasized the way that Scripture speaks of Baptism in terms of new birth, renewal, etc. I think, though, that we need to remember that according to the Creed, Holy Baptism is "for the forgiveness

Matthew Johnsonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12509874555978923437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-87428706303695734142008-07-05T23:20:00.000-04:002008-07-05T23:20:00.000-04:00

Bless you, Dan, and thank you for being able to explain many things that I have been discovering and struggling with the last few years. <BR/><BR/>Chaplain, I wish you could have been at Mass with us yesterday. The priests where I've been attending have no problem at all with the saving power of Jesus. In fact I hear more about it in a week or two than I did in two years at the local Wesleyan

Abigailhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13549284164423127019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-3499497459667245982008-07-02T08:32:00.000-04:002008-07-02T08:32:00.000-04:00

Hey Dan,<BR/>Thanks for sharing your journey. Your sister, Diana, and I look forward to seeing you, Jinger, and the rest of your family at the family reunion this weekend. Your journey will be from Michigan and ours from Minnesota. We will meet and celebrate what has made us a family and it will give us great joy to share those moments with you. A reunion brings the family together even if

Mark Neumannhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10388592979722751895noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-34168584474811889802008-06-27T00:09:00.000-04:002008-06-27T00:09:00.000-04:00

The point about concupiscence being sin, likewise, is because the Roman declaration that concupiscence is not "sin" falls within their system of merit whereby sin is primarily transgression. Luther understood sin not so much as the violation of commands, but a matter of "relatio" coram Deo. Concupiscence is considered sin, because it runs contrary to how many was created to be *in relationship

Rev. Ryan Foutshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15608412790780631961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-27574833779395903842008-06-26T23:46:00.000-04:002008-06-26T23:46:00.000-04:00

When I was an evangelical I would have been appalled to hear someone becoming Roman Catholic. Now that I'm Eastern Orthodox, I'm not appalled, and think that you've probably expanded your understanding beyond the sectarian interests of one tradition.<BR/><BR/>Still, I must take issue with this:<BR/><BR/>"The Catholic Church, has pride of place, because everyone else separated from them."<BR/><BR/

orthodoxhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09445301151975209564noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-40361659142384666592008-06-24T14:52:00.000-04:002008-06-24T14:52:00.000-04:00

There is far too much here to handle in one post --<BR/><BR/>But it is worth noting that, on this point, Dan is correct. The position being argued against *primarily* in the Lutheran Confessions -- particularly Ap. IV -- is the "via moderna" approach of Occam, Biel, et. al. He is also correct that this position was rejected in favor of the via antiqua of St. Thomas Aquinas at the Council of

Rev. Ryan Foutshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15608412790780631961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-3357606719139462292008-06-23T13:30:00.000-04:002008-06-23T13:30:00.000-04:00

Dan, It's also possible that you are hearing what you've been trained to hear, the Gospel, but where there is none. I think that sometimes when people who have good theology hear something else, they supply what's not said from their own storehouse of faith and knowledge. <BR/><BR/>That works for a while. But when one is constantly told what he should do etc. sinful flesh eventually eats that

chaplain7904http://www.blogger.com/profile/14568518517581646470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-50713197290148723402008-06-23T13:23:00.000-04:002008-06-23T13:23:00.000-04:00

<I>It is is prayer to God, and thus it recognizes the need for prayer.</I><BR/><BR/>Or to say it another way, it's a prayer, not a sermon. Hence, it must be heard in the context in which it lives.<BR/><BR/>fwiw

Fr John W Fentonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01283787316830250866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-35276058498943586452008-06-23T12:57:00.000-04:002008-06-23T12:57:00.000-04:00

Dean,<BR/><BR/>My kids often tell me that they didn't hear me, when I clearly and distinctly told them to do something or to stop doing something. The fault is not one of articulation, but of comprehension. <BR/><BR/>You are clearly anti-catholic. That prejudice effects how you listen and what you hear. And it is understandable that you look to further justify yourself in your decision to

Dan Woodringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11653512532356811993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-7957460789291732552008-06-22T22:24:00.000-04:002008-06-22T22:24:00.000-04:00

Simply put, welcome to the True Church of Jesus Christ! God Bless You and welcome Home!

Catholicdude15http://www.blogger.com/profile/10796155367194265165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-89502645892579092672008-06-22T07:52:00.000-04:002008-06-22T07:52:00.000-04:00

Ron W. It's utopian to think that you're leaving one denomination and going to another, in order to find the true church. The Church which Jesus founded by His death and resurrection isn't synonymous with a denomination. Yet that church exists here and there. If you have a Lutheran congregation which is faithful in doctrine and practice, stick with it. There are few to be found in

chaplain7904http://www.blogger.com/profile/14568518517581646470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-72439345518982835742008-06-22T00:38:00.000-04:002008-06-22T00:38:00.000-04:00

I can sympathize with your journey, as I am in the process of making it my self.<BR/><BR/>I am (was?) a confessional LC-MS Lutheran for 18 years. Unfortunately, confessionalism has been nearly driven out of the LC-MS. All of the major denominations have fallen in to either heterodoxy or outright heresy. The remaining synods are splintering further and further. Confessionalism has catholic marks

Ron Whttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06853488371667807471noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-74860063865739153412008-06-18T16:42:00.000-04:002008-06-18T16:42:00.000-04:00

<I>What a stark contrast between Lutherans chit-chating in the pews, and Catholics on their knees during distribution. </I><BR/><BR/>There are Lutheran churches where the people gladly kneel during distribution rather than chit-chat away. As there are congregations (many many congregations) in the RC where they worship with contemporary music and liturgical dance, have absolutely no knowledge of

The Rebellious Pastor's Wifehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16686240798146992394noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-68722005815356661942008-06-18T15:13:00.000-04:002008-06-18T15:13:00.000-04:00

All right, I couldn't resist showing up at this theology match one more time.<BR/><BR/>Dan, you tell me I don't really know RC theology on justification and other matters, and that the RC church unwaveringly holds to this priceless treasure of the Christian faith, which comforts us in all our sorrows.<BR/><BR/>They may use the term that a man is "justified by faith, without the deeds of the law."

chaplain7904http://www.blogger.com/profile/14568518517581646470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-351180937588451792008-06-17T22:30:00.000-04:002008-06-17T22:30:00.000-04:00

Eric,<BR/><BR/>I would be very pleased to continue this discussion. I also read your blog about simul justus et peccator, and I want to comment on that as well. But I'll start a new topic on this, hopefully tomorrow. I also want to re-read the Freedom of the Christian, as I haven't lately, and am curious myself on how I will react to it.

Dan Woodringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11653512532356811993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-61710650541528710622008-06-17T17:40:00.000-04:002008-06-17T17:40:00.000-04:00

"No, coz, rather I weep."

Orianna Launhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01763924682909630509noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-89726232748366912592008-06-17T16:27:00.000-04:002008-06-17T16:27:00.000-04:00

Dan,<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your response. I think you answered generally the general question I asked - and I think it is good that we can both agree that the Church as constituted in the Middle Ages was in need of reform. The initial reason I asked was because your post seemed to imply that Luther himself misinterpreted Roman practice of the time - and your response clarifies that a bit. How

Rev. Eric J Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-33820258096910109872008-06-17T13:53:00.000-04:002008-06-17T13:53:00.000-04:00

<I>Would you say that what you believe about the doctrine of justification has changed, or would you say that you realized that the Lutheran church you belonged to did not actually teach the doctrine of justification as you believed it? </I><BR/><BR/>Both are true. My view on Justification has changed radically. On the other hand, while the LCMS officially holds the Lutheran doctrine of

Dan Woodringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11653512532356811993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-85733380768495925102008-06-17T11:23:00.000-04:002008-06-17T11:23:00.000-04:00

Eric,<BR/><BR/>Perhaps you have something specific in mind wrt the Babylonian Captivity and Freedom of the Christian. In general, I have this to say: There is no doubt that in these works Luther points out genuine abuses during the middle ages. I don't know of any Catholics who deny this. Popes may not depose kings. And the pursuit of wealth and power, only touches upon the depth of the

Dan Woodringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11653512532356811993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-66171442943568918872008-06-16T23:48:00.000-04:002008-06-16T23:48:00.000-04:00

Thanks for the explanation, Dan.<BR/><BR/>A close friend to me as I serve my parish is actually a local Catholic Priest who is a constant demonstration of fidelity to justification as I was taught to believe it in seminary. We certainly have our differences, but I count him as a great ally in the struggle against the world.<BR/><BR/>I have one question for you about justification, and didn't

Jonathonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16513172813708585923noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-26401089891620651162008-06-16T22:59:00.000-04:002008-06-16T22:59:00.000-04:00

A lot of this becomes a question of how one views the Christian life. Is the Christian life a matter of the Christian triumphing over sin (although sometimes faltering but hopefully being restored via God's Sacraments) or a person being at the same time sinner and saint.<BR/><BR/>I lean towards the latter - I think it is more faithful to scripture and captures the tension that is present in

Rev. Eric J Brownhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17747919365522145094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-73484920427903159182008-06-16T22:23:00.000-04:002008-06-16T22:23:00.000-04:00

Well, we have a formal disagreement, and it can't be successfully discussed here.

chaplain7904http://www.blogger.com/profile/14568518517581646470noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-54050015327138400782008-06-16T22:04:00.000-04:002008-06-16T22:04:00.000-04:00

<I>I spent the first 21 years of my life as an RC, I have 12 years of Catholic education, I think I know pretty well what the RC church teaches.</I>.<BR/><BR/>I can think of many people who have had 12 years of Lutheran education, and don't know what it means to be Lutheran. I know others who graduated from both Lutheran colleges and seminary, who still don't know, and don't even understand the

Dan Woodringhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11653512532356811993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5042711301281368436.post-72223188884044536892008-06-16T17:37:00.000-04:002008-06-16T17:37:00.000-04:00

Sorry guys, I can't follow this discussion on blog comments. We have a formal disagreement. I believe the RC teachings are wrong on many points. I spent the first 21 years of my life as an RC, I have 12 years of Catholic education, I think I know pretty well what the RC church teaches. I left it for a reason and that reason is that the RC religion relies on Christ's atonement PLUS my works.

chaplain7904http://www.blogger.com/profile/14568518517581646470noreply@blogger.com